Election voting meme sheepage

[mattp]

Who should I vote for?

Your expected outcome:

Liberal Democrat

Your actual outcome:

Labour -11
Conservative -28
	Liberal Democrat 32
UK Independence Party -7
	Green 11

You should vote: Liberal Democrat

The LibDems take a strong stand against tax cuts and a strong one in favour of public services: they would make long-term residential care for the elderly free across the UK, and scrap university tuition fees. They are in favour of a ban on smoking in public places, but would relax laws on cannabis. They propose to change vehicle taxation to be based on usage rather than ownership.

Take the test at Who Should You Vote For

Whilst on the subject of politics, I had a conversation recently which concerned me a little. (I'll not name the subject to protect identity but feel free to speak up if you read this and want to make yourself known). Basically, this person had decided not to vote with the justification that the parties were all as bad as each other, and no one party stood out well enough to warrant a vote. Part of the conversation went something like:

Me) Would you vote if there was a RON option?
X) Yes
Me) Have you written to your MP to state that much, asking if they're going to campaign for that or some other way to register dissatisfaction with all candidates
X) I don't even know who my MP is
Me) *stunned silence* It's Anne Coffey.

I'm trying to place why I felt surprised. Maybe because someone who has political awareness and seems to have at least some strong views
(OK, so you won't know who I'm talking about here, but bear with me)
hasn't found a political affilliation. Perhaps it's because I view a non-vote as wasted. I don't know.

sofrfruit and I spoke earlier this evening about this and explained a few things I didn't know about. Instead of spoiling a ballot paper e.g. by marking each possible vote (which is the only solution I had previously known of), you can scrawl a message such as "Re-open nominations" on the paper. This is because non-standard votes are examined by all sides to see if they can argue that is should go on to their own party, or shouldn't go to that of an opponent. This also means that those who do have a party in mind can also elect to vote for that party and also write such a message without the paper being treated as spoiled. I've now decided to do this, because though I'm in favour of a RON option (or better still STV), I'm not happy enough to sacrifice my vote to that effect.


To the (I suspect) few of you who weren't planning on voting in the forthcoming UK general election (assuming you're eligible to), what are your reason(s)?

Comments

[nozza.livejournal.com]

I would think that whoever examines the vote would be nowhere near high-ranking enough for them seeming a RON vote to matter. And further, I doubt that any politcal party would take a few local RON votes and then press for a major change in legislation that has only one purpose: that you take away votes from them. Sounds more like a job for the electoral commision than anything else..

[softfruit.livejournal.com]

Non-standard votes (eg writing instead of an "x") will usually be examined by the agents of each of the candidates. While as you say they aren't high up enough to change policies on such matters single-handed*, what is written may be gossiped about later by campaign teams and may even make its way into folklore - like the "Dipsy Lala TinkyWinky Po" vote in Guildford a few years ago (4 tellytubby names were written across the names of the 4 candidates; a kiss next to one of them meant that that tellytubby vote actually got counted as a vote for one of the real candidates -- be careful how you spoil your ballot!!)

It won't change national policies. It may make a local campaigner pause and think about an issue and perhaps add it to the things they are interested in pushing for. If you do it carefully, your vote will still count for the candidate you choose to back.



* and indeed one person on a whim can only change party policy in the less democratically run parties where members don't get a say - Tory, BNP, New Labour...

[nozza.livejournal.com]

WEll, maybe I'm just a cold-hearted cynic, but I just can't really see the point in trying to convince a political campaigner that it's in their best interests to give the voting public an option to vote for nobody. And also, I severely doubt that anyone (well, I acknowledge that a small faction will) would actually take the effort to vote whilst still voting for nobody.

But then again, I am the kind of guy that sadly shakes his head at small bands of people of the high street holding up placards in protest at some random govrenment policy, wondering how they can be so deluded to think the it will make any kind of difference, regardless of how democratic our society claims to be. And please, without meaning to sound like an arse whilst saying this, please can no-one give me the somewhat patronising and thoroughly obvious 'but if everybody saat back and just took it, then there would never be change and the government would do what it likes blah blah..' response to that. I accept the logic of such arguments, but I recognise that our Mps are our fairly elected representatives and as such we don't really have a massive right to bitch. But this is taking a chunk out of my annoyingly small lunch break, so i shall leave my points at that and get off my rather naff soapbox :p

[softfruit.livejournal.com]

I think you must have chosen much more moderate answers on the issues chosen than I did, given your bars are much shorter.

[vampwillow]

they've just - finally, today - changed the front page to include some content, but you might find the website for the Labour replacement for Chris Smith (Islington South and Finsbury) amusing ...

http://www.islingtonlabour.org.uk/issues.htm

[softfruit.livejournal.com]

To be fair, they don't say anything that I'd take issue with :o)

Question from the American...

[andi-williams.livejournal.com]

What's RON and STV?

Re: Question from the American...

[mattp.livejournal.com]

RON: "Re-open nominations" an option to vote for if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates

STV: Single Transferable vote

[(Anonymous)]

I certainly find it odd that someone can complain or reject what they don't even know about. Your local MP might even by one who breaks the party official line on occasion so wouldn't necessarily be all bad even if you disagree with the party.

RD.

[mattp.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that's an interesting point.

Who are you though? I don't know the initials "RD" - assuming they're your true initials.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, I'll go public. I'm not proud. :-p (Caz pointed this out to me, so blame her for me finding it.)

The main reason I have no idea who my MP is is, quite simply, I don't care. I have a considerable awareness of politics and political opinion (mostly an environmentally forced awareness, admittedly), and my knowledge and awareness has led me to the conclusion that:

1) all the political parties are, pretty much, the same thing;
2) one letter to my MP or an X in a box or writing RON (not the same as "none of the above", which is what I'd really prefer) or some other random insult on a bit of paper in Stockport will make absolutely no difference to anything that gets decided in London;
3) every single party that's ever existed has based their campaign strategy on the statement that all the other parties suck; not one of them can promote their own greatness without building it on the shitness of someone else.

This in mind, I have no intention of voting; indeed, I have every intention of not voting, and I will strongly object to anyone who tells me that this decision automatically causes me to surrender my right to vote. (Short version; a non-vote is not "wasted" - it provides an equal benefit to all parties - and if I choose to not vote, a government will be forced on me regardless.) I want it documented that I choose not to vote not out of sheer apathy or laziness, but because I genuinely object to the bulk of the political sphere. I have considered all my options, and decided that not voting is the one that most accurately represents my opinion.

As for the actuality of writing to my MP about the RON thing... I'm a cynical realist. No MP is going to campaign for any policy which has the potential to cost them votes or seats, and that's also why you'll never see any demands for PR or STV coming from Labour or the Tories.

Finally, this might amuse:

(http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com)

Who should I vote for?

Your expected outcome:

Liberal Democrat

Your actual outcome:

You should vote: Green

The Green Party (http://www.greenparty.org.uk), which is of course strong on environmental issues, takes a strong position on welfare issues, but was firmly against the war in Iraq. Other key concerns are cannabis, where the party takes a liberal line, and foxhunting, which unsurprisingly the Greens are firmly against.

Take the test at Who Should You Vote For (http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com)


- Kinitawowi aka David Robinson, mattp's apolitcal housemate

[softfruit.livejournal.com]

one letter to my MP...

To take an example dear to my heart: a constituent wrote to Alex Carlile when he was MP for Montgomeryshire, about the state of transsexual rights.

Alex invited the letter-writer to come to his office and discuss it further.

Alex then helped the writer to set up a pressure group on the issue to work on a cross-party basis (press for change www.pfc.org.uk).

They built cross-party momentum and acceptance, and steered legal challenges through the courts and european courts.

As of a couple of weeks ago, trans people are legally able to change their birth certificates to reflect their post-op status, and as of a couple of years ago have much better employment rights.

Cos someone wrote to their MP.

So it can happen. And that's just a case I happen to know from reading the biography of that person.

[softfruit.livejournal.com]

all the political parties are, pretty much, the same thing;

In as much as they are all groups of people with broadly similar goals pushing in roughly the same direction to change society, yes.

But those directions and goals vary a hell of a lot, from policing through people on the beat to policing by stop and search of people and state ID cards, from abandoning the Northern Ireland peace process to, well, not abandoning it. From keeping the council tax based on house value to having a local tax based on income. From building more roads to renationalising the railways. Taxing jobs or taxing pollution. Tax those on low incomes proportionately more or less than those on higher incomes.

The odd ballot paper by itself rarely changes much -- though it has decided seats and governments from time to time. The great mass of votes is the only way that the mass of the population stops our governments being in thrall to small or extremist factions the way the fundie christians can control so much of the US political agenda.

And where the vote won't change the result this time, it still makes the seat more marginal and more a focus of attention for the parties the next time around.

[(Anonymous)]

I want it documented that I choose not to vote not out of sheer apathy or laziness, but because I genuinely object to the bulk of the political sphere Then put that on your ballot - how else to document formerly? If you really don't think that any are up to it then either a) stand yourself - plus you get a load of cash from the governmant to help you do this or b) indicate your dismay on your ballot.
At the very least this means that an unscrupulous person can't steal your vote - you've given your name and on matthewp's userinfo it lists Stockport his and presumably therefore your location.
Not voting means it could be interpreted as sheer apathy, the very thing you said you want to avoid. If the voting system won't allow you to vote the way you want to then play the game according to the system. Being defient gains you nothing. How have you attempted to change your country? Voting is only one way. Writing to your MP is another. Petitions are a third. Rallies a fourth. I'm sure you can think of more. Even if you don't agree with the party in power then you can still use your MP to voice your concerns in the house. You say you don't care. You don't care who your MP is but you care enough to want to keep the right to complain? How will your complaints be heard? Have the courage to stand by your convictions.

-RD.

[mattp.livejournal.com]

Heh, I turn off IP logging and screening of comments and go away for a few days and look what I return to? My own fault, I guess, particularly on a political post.

Your cute misspellings add intruige - governmant is the one which sticks out. You present text too well (aside from being arugmentative ;-) in order for me to believe the mistakes genuine.

You still haven't identified yourself. Actually, whilst you seem to be watching my journal, are you the stranger who's been texting me cryptic messages the past few days? (...887)